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August 31, 2005
What we should, and should not be doing during a disaster.....
When I woke up this morning and turned on the news, I could hardly believe my eyes. Thousands of people wandering the streets and highways of New Orleans. People still stranded on rooftops, waiting, and praying for a rescue. It is almost surreal, and almost unbelievable that this is happening a couple thousand miles away, and not in some foreign country. We are used to scenes of refugees in places like Africa, and the states of the former Soviet Union. But in the United States. It almost doesn't seem right that I am able to get up, watch tv, eat breakfast, stop by Starbucks, and go to work, while others, just states away, are scrambling for life, while many lives have been shattered.
What is our response in times like these?
That is both an easy and hard question. I think our first response is to go to God in prayer, and to help intercede on behalf of our neighbors. Prayer for those who have lost their lives. Prayer for those who are suffering. Prayer for those who are helping. Prayer for those who don't have faith, or belief in Jesus Christ. Prayer for those who know Christ, and who are undoubtedly struggling with this disaster.
This is also a time to provide financial and physical help to those who are suffering. It's an opportunity, whether we do it in person, or through some other channels, to be a presence in the lives of those who are there. "And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory of a father's only son, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14). This is an opportunity to be in the flesh, and to minister to others, as Christ ministered in the flesh among us. This may mean an actual trip to the disaster site, or it may mean your support of those who are going. It's an opporunity to be ambassadors for Christ, as seen in our actions. It's an opportunity to show the reconciling message of God, in Christ (2 Cor. 5:18-20).
There are many things we can be doing, but I think we should continually be in prayer, and live in the realization that others are suffering instead of isolating ourselves in our own little worlds.
What we shouldn't do?
Undoubtedly, like in any disaster, you get those who are screaming in hysterics that this is the end of the world, or that this is God's judgment upon the earth. I already here people saying this was God's judgment upon the city of New Orleans for its Godlessness, mardi gras, etc. And the sites that talk about these things are too numerous to even list. But we don't need pastors, theologians and other Christians writing articles, such as the ones that appeared last year during the tsunami, claiming it was God's judgment, and God's attempt to get those in the tsunami area to come to repentance. All along, while people are suffering, these Christians sit in their ivory towers and pulpits debating over God's judgment, mercy, repentance, and whether or not Satan or God was the cause of the tsunami. May we actually be the ones that God has mercy upon.
I am reminded of the LORD's words in Job 42:7: "After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: 'My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.'"
I fear sometimes that as Christians, we speak words to others about God, with words that are not right. We, who are on earth, try to determine and judge the thoughts of the One who is in Heaven.
A disaster will bring out the worst and the best in humanity. It brings out both looters, and also those who are wanting to provide help, and relieve suffering.
And disasters also bring out the worst and the best in Christians. Those who want to only condemn and blame and judge, while sitting back with an attitude of almost, "I told you so." It's almost as if some Christians delight in other's suffering. And then there are those who love, show mercy, grace, faithfulness, and who are quick to enter into other's suffering.
The world is watching us. And may they see people, and Christians who love each other, who love those who believe different than us. May they see us helping out our neighbors in need. Maybe this is a time for us to practice the the apologetic of hospitality, or the apologetic of suffering with others.
For how you can help, go to Instapundit for a great list of the agencies and groups that you can send money and other supplies to.
Posted by rhett at 09:04 AM | Comments (5) | TrackBack
August 30, 2005
Yancey on a Nazi behind bars, turned theologian....
In the latest online edition of Christianity Today Magazine, Philip Yancey writes a beautiful article on the German theologian, Jurgen Moltmann.
I particulary like Yancey's statement:
Upon release, Moltmann began to articulate his theology of hope. We exist in a state of contradiction between the Cross and the Resurrection. Surrounded by decay, we nonetheless hope for restoration, a hope illuminated by the "foreglow" of Christ's resurrection. Faith in that glorious future can transform the present—just as Moltmann's own hope of eventual release from prison camp transformed his daily experience there.
and this:
In a single sentence Jurgen Moltmann expresses the great span from Good Friday to Easter. It is, in fact, a summary of human history, past, present, and future: "God weeps with us so that we may someday laugh with him."
What a generation of theologians that were products of World War II and its circumstances. Such a rich theology in Moltmann's and other's writings such as Bonhoeffer, Barth, Brunner, etc.
Posted by rhett at 06:26 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack
Going to College: Advice to Students and Parents #1
So as I have been thinking about this short series on giving advice to parents and students for college, I have been pondering many different things. But what I hope to give to you, and what I hope you take away, is just a few simple things. Nothing complex, nothing lengthy, but some helpful advice that could possibly make a difference in one's college experience. Both for the parents and the students.
Now, as a college pastor, and as a Christian, I will definitely be focusing on advice that not everyone, especially those who aren't Christian, may agree with, or disagree with. I hope that the advice I give can be helpful to all, but I am definitely thinking about my Christian audience, or those who are interested in that arena. Overall, I think this advice is helpful to all, regardless of your beliefs at this point.
Advice to Students:
Get involved in a small community, ASAP. Now by small community, I mean a community that helps one feel connected, and helps one feel a sense of belonging...outside of the larger college community, which may be 34,000 students, 15,000 students, or 3,000 students. For a Christian, I mean a Christian community, though it should not be limited to this. This means getting involved in a church, or parachurch organization. I have seen a huge success for those students who get involved early on in a church community, as opposed to those who don't. People who plug into a church community seem to have a higher sense of connectivity to people; a larger sense of belonging to something, especially something bigger than themselves..something they can give their lives to, or give back to. Students who get involved in church communities tend to form a healthier network of friends. People they can lean on. Gain support from. Pray with. Be encouraged by. Be accountable to.
As a college pastor, I believe that getting involved in a church is important. This is one place that students can look for community. They could move to Los Angeles, and look to our community, The Quest, or the numerous other churches in the area. Another place is on campus. A student can arrive on a campus and get involved with great organizations like Campus Crusade, Intervarsity, The Navigators, etc, etc.
I am not basing these things on any scientific study that I have done, but on my own college experience, the experience of others that I know, and what I witness in my own ministry. And I have noticed the difference in maturity between those who get involved late in college in a Christian community, and those who get invovled early. There is a difference in how they deal with stress; how they deal with temptation and struggles; how they deal with success and failure, etc.
Now this is some very generic advice, and I could unpack it for weeks. But what the bottom line is, is this: That those who get involved in Christian community tend to have a higher rate of success and growth, than those who I have seen who are not involved. And by success, I mean an overall experience, not something that is without failure.
There are many communities to get involved in in college, from the Greek system, to intramurals, to clubs, to dorm life, etc. Some are better than others, and some are more healthy than others. But I think it is vital for a Christian to get plugged into a Christian community early on.
Advice to Parents
As parents, I want to play off the advice I gave to students above. I think that it is important for parents to take an interest in the lives of their children and to help encourage them in their spiritual walk, and how that translates into college. A good percentage of my emails and phone calls comes from parents who are wanting to get their kids involved in a college community. Plugged in. Around good Christians with good influence.
But my advice to parents is for you to help encourage this journey, but not to be overbearing. The strength of a student's involvement in a Christian community during the college years is generally reflected in the freedom the student had to make that decision on their own, rather than a parent forcing their students into a church, or constanlty pestering them. Most often, I know that when a parent calls on behalf of their child, whether their child knows it or not, the percentage of that child coming out to the ministry and getting involved, is less likely than those students who come to me and inquire on their own.
This is the first time that children are often away from home, and sometimes they may test the boundaries. And this is one of those boundaries. I did it. We all do it. But a child, who has gone off to college, usually seems to have a higher committment to our group, than when they have gone off to college and their parent is constantly egging them on to get involved.
So I could narrow the advice down to this:
Students: Get involved in a Christian community ASAP. This will help your success through college in many ways.
Parents: Encourage your students to get involved, and support them, but let them be the ones to make the decision on their own, rather than something you force upon them.
Stay tuned for the next installment when I talk about how we define success in the college years.
And if you are a student in the Los Angeles area, or you are a parent sending a student to school in the Los Angeles area, please let us know if we can be of any help in connecting your student to a community; whether it is here at The Quest, or some other ministry. Here at The Quest, we will continue to have our weekly, Wednesday night worship and teaching service from 8:00-9:30pm in Evans Chapel. And we will continue to have on-campus Bible studies at UCLA, USC, and LMU.
Posted by rhett at 01:30 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
A reminder to be in prayer....
We can often forget the tragedies that daily unfold around us when we are physically removed from them. It's almost as if they don't exist. But hopefully we can be in pray for those on the Gulf Coast, and all those that have been affected by Hurrican Katrina.
"We're talking about in essence having _ in the continental United States _ having a refugee camp of a million people," van Heerden said. News Source
Posted by rhett at 01:03 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
Hmmmmm....
Sometimes TV news is too much to bear, and sometimes it is just as sensationalized as gossip TV...and sometimes we just need a momentary escape from reality.....but really:
MTV VIDEO AWARDS BEAT CABLE COVERAGE OF HURRICANE: 8,005,000 FOR MTV SUNDAY NITE NEARLY DOUBLES FOXNEWS PEAK 4,749,000; CNN 2,259,000... MORE...
Posted by rhett at 01:00 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
A wonderful post on leadership styles from a church that is making a difference in their community....
My brother, who lives near Union Station in Washington D.C. has been talking a lot about a church in his community that has really been making a difference. The church is National Community Church, which meets in two locations, one being Union Station. I was just reading the pastor's blog and was really impressed with some of his thinking, especially his post on Ambidextrous Leadership.
I am definitely a left-brained thinker, who is screaming and desiring to also be more of a right brained thinker. And though my seminary education was definitely a lot of left-brained thinking (which is important), I do think that some seminaries, especially Fuller Theological Seminary, and Regent College in Vancouver are beginning to approach seminary education from a more wholistic context, helping a pastor develop both sides of his or her brain: both the linear and logical, as well as the imaginative and creative.
Living in Los Angeles, and pastoring in a community that is deeply entrenched in the entertainment industry has definitely been a help in helping me develop a side of my brain that I have always wanted to use, but that has been dormant at times. Thanks to my college community, The Quest, and the students who come from UCLA, USC, LMU, SMC, etc.....you have helped me appreciate, learn, grow, and develop the many facets of leadership.
Posted by rhett at 10:05 AM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
August 29, 2005
Someone makes a good comment about the Four Spiritual Laws...
I received this posted comment about my other post today on an apologetic of hospitality as was written about by Ryan Bolger. The commenter writes (Jeff) writes:
.....I don't know if I agree with your post today, though, about the Four Spiritual Laws. We're probably on the same page..but just to clarify..I do think there IS a time for the 4SL. Just maybe not your first meeting. :) I was on staff with CCC for ten years and did campus ministry for two. Was involved in an evangelism task force to see if what we were doing as staff was working. Found thru my own experience that I was tired of meeting with an athlete, sharing the 4SL, and then never seeing them again. So that's why I said we're probably on the same page. But there does come a time..when the soil is soft..that people need to understand the gospel. I think there is still no better explanation of it than the 4SL. There are a number of people in our church that I've talked to that would consider themselves seekers or even Christians that don't know the clear gospel plan...and definitely not well enough to share it with anyone. I shyed away from using the 4SL. But now I'm going back to it...in the right context. Make sense? Agree?
Thx,
Jeff
New Valley Church
www.newvalleychurch.org
And I would say that I agree with Jeff. I don't think that the Four Spiritual Laws are useless, or that a lot of different methods are useless that we often find in traditional apologetics. But what I have seen, is a trend that is moving away from some of those things. They are no longer the standard by which one does evangelism, or apologetics, though there is a time and place for them. I agree, that different contexts require different things. We must be able to discern the context, environment, person, etc., when we are in these situations. On some days I may use a more linear, structured, rational apologetic with someone I meet, when the next day I may use something less rigid, less defined. In fact, working with college students is interesting. One can often discern what apologetic is best useful, by looking at one's major. I often approach the engineer students very differently than I do the English literature students. But what I have seen that never fails, is the example that we set for others by the way we live our lives. That is something that transcends debates, arguments, theories, etc. And hospitality is one way that we live out our Christian lives before others.
Thanks for the comments Jeff, and for the clarification....and it's cool to communicate with someone who had been in this ministry years ago. I, and my students are inheriting the seeds that were sown before us.
Posted by rhett at 05:19 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
A New School Year & Some Advice to Parents and Students
Well, it's that time of year again when students return to school. Sometimes they are returning to a familiar place, or maybe it is brand new. Maybe they are transitioning from high school to college, or maybe it is a return to the same place to enter into another year. But this time of year can bring about many emotions, feelings, and thoughts. Sometimes there is fear of the unknown. Or anxiety about achieving success. Sometimes there is a strain to be perfectionistic. Or maybe there is some rebellion, in what may be the first time away from home. And these feelings are experienced by both parents and their children, the students. And after Princeton Review posted their Best 361 College Rankings, you may be breathing a sigh of relief that your student is at one of the top academic schools, or you might have a sense of anxiety that you are sending your child to a top party school.
Now, I am no expert. I am 30 years old. Having completed four years of undgergraduate work, five years of graduate school, and about to return to more graduate school; and I'm entering into my fifth school year as a college pastor. These things do not make me an expert, but they do qualify me to speak with some experience on the matter. As much as one can speak when one has not sent children to college before.
But as a college pastor, I have had the unique opportunity to watch many students come into college, and I have been paying close attention to what makes a school year successful, for both parents and students. Some of my insights are those that I have formed from merely watching and observing, but for the most part, they have come out of my experience of being good friends with the students in my ministry, and as I have walked through life with them together, they have taught me many things.
Over the next couple of weeks I would like to impart some advice to both parents and students. This is not going to be something lengthy or abstract. But simply some advice, coming in different forms. Some small things that I have noticed that make a difference for the school year. And I hope that these insights will help you as a parent, as well as helping you as a student. And maybe it could be a joint learning experience, parent and student.
Look for my first post tomorrow.....and some advice for both parents and students.
Posted by rhett at 04:59 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
Others enter into the conversation on preaching and dialogue....
Brian posts a long blog on dialogue and preaching. It will be interesting to watch where these conversations lead. I know this is something close to Brian's heart as he is in the midst of planting a new church. So I know preaching is something he has been thinking about.
Posted by rhett at 04:54 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
An apologetic of hospitality....
Ryan Bolger has a really good post today on hospitality apologetics. Ryan says:
Hospitality apologetics does not focus on the verbal argument at all, in fact it is way down on the list of priorities. Rather than presenting an argument, these communities present a life. They do not concern themselves with presenting a gospel formula, but rather their focus is on whether the gospel was demonstrated in the recipients midst.
Ryan makes a comment in this post about a campus minister friend of his who states that traditional methods of apologetics are no longer working. That the time of the Four Spiritual Laws has passed.
Now, I have only been in campus ministry for about four years, but I have definitely seen a move away from traditional apologetics, to a new, emerging form. Gone seem to be the days when a student wanted to debate, or talk about philosophical propositions for the existence of God. What they are wanting to see is how God has changed my life. What they are wanting to witness, are the ways that we live in community. What they want is for us to live out what we believe.
I have been learning myself how important the apologetic of hospitality is, in the lives of my Christian friends, and especially in the lives of those who do not believe.
Posted by rhett at 04:33 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
August 25, 2005
Yes!
I love this post from my former co-worker and boss in ministry. He is working on his D.Min., and has begun to interact with Leonard Sweet. Lars, you are so right. Our confrontation with new thinking, or theology, comes from our own fear at times. Fear that we will lose control. Fear that we will be unstable. But ultimately, that interaction is good, if not lifegiving. I love that Aslan passage.
Posted by rhett at 03:43 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
August 24, 2005
Humility in Theology and Preaching....And the two paragraphs by Karl Barth that I would hope every preacher, teacher, student, layperson reads.
The previous post on perfect theology has reminded me of a few things. It has reminded me of the importance of humility in the task of doing theology. It has also reminded me of the importance of humility in the task of preaching. And it reminds me of the importance of humility, in a theologian, who hopes to go about these two tasks: And these things remind me of Karl Barth. Karl Barth, is considered by many to be one of the greatest theologians of all time, and certainly of the 20th century. His sheer theological output is stunning. If anyone, should somehow, approach the task of theology and preaching without humbleness, you think it would be someone with such an amazing resume. But that is not the case. Karl Barth, more than most people that I have read, approached the task of theology, or Dogmatics, and the task of preaching, or Proclamation, with great humility.
As we have been discussing the issue of preaching, teaching, dialogue, and perfect theology, I am reminded of his opening statements in Church Dogmatics, where he discusses the relation of dogmatics to preaching, and does so with great humbleness. He would say that in no way should we imagine that we have become masters of these things, otherwise we forget our position in relation to Jesus Christ. A theology of preaching will really begin to develop in the first 100 pages of this text as well.
Too many of us do not approach God, theology, or preaching with the humility that is necessary, and that was demonstated to us in the life of Jesus Christ (Phil. 2:5-11). We instead push for perfectionism, and believe with a lack of humility that we have the correct answer for everything. And with a lack of humility we believe that only if we, were given the chance to preach, we would change this church around. Humility is something that is often lacking in ministry, and we are all vulnerable to it. Barth reminds me of the importance of humility in our theology and preaching.
He says this, in:
Volume 1/1: The Word of God
A. On the relation of dogmatics to proclamation (pp, 85-87)
(underlinings are my emphasis)
3. The theme of Church proclamation or subject-matter of Christianity demands dogmatics to the extent that its proclamation is a responsible act and to the extent that dogmatics is the effort to meet this responsibility towards the theme of proclamation. Yet it is by no means the case that in dogmatics the Church becomes as it were the lord and judge of the subject-matter, so that the current results of dogmatics are to be accepted as law imposed as it were on God, revelation and faith. Dogmatics has to investigate and say at each given point how we may best speak of God, revelation and faith to the extent that human talk about these things is to count as Church proclamation. It should not think that it can lay down what God, revelation and faith are in themselves. In both its investigations and its conclusions it must keep in view that God is in heaven and it on earth, and that God, His revelation and faith always live their own free life over against all human talk, including that of the best dogmatics. Even if we have again weighed everything and corrected everything and formulated everything better, as is our duty to the subject-matter of Christianity in respect of human talk about it, and even if our findings have been given the status of Church confession and dogma, we have still to say: We are unprofitable servants, and in no sense are we to imagine that we have become in the very least masters of the subject.
Like the subject-matter of Christianity, Church proclamation must also remain free in the last resort, free to receive the command which it must always receive afresh from that free life of the subject-matter of Christianity. Church proclamation and not dogmatics is immediate to God in the Church. Proclamation is essential, dogmatics is needed only for the sake of it. Dogmatics lives by it to the extent that it lives only in the Church. In proclamation, and in God, revelation and faith only to the degree that these are its objects, dogmatics is to seek its material.
Thank you to my favorite professor, Ray Anderson, who instilled in me and many other students, a love for Karl Barth, Bonhoeffer, and many others. Like these theologians, Dr. Anderson is a professor who challenges his students to think through the tough issues, and who demands that one integrates theology into the life of ministry, and vice-versa.
Posted by rhett at 04:54 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack
Perfect Theology?
Evangelical Outpost has a great post today on the blog, @ Large. Evangelical Outpost was especially taken by this comment:
Reformed theology is consistent, logical, and nearly irrefutable. True seekers find it attractive, even seductive in its intellectual beauty. And therein lies its biggest flaw: Perfection.
If Satan cannot discourage a man from believing the Scriptures, he will have him idolize them, to find them precious not as the breath of God, but as a system of logic, beautiful in itself. We might name this idol Bibliolatry.
Interesting thoughts. And something I see happening a lot, especially in college ministry. College ministry is done in a very academic context, and students are wanting to express themselves, and their faith, in very logical and philosophical ways. This is not a true statement across the board for every student I have in ministry, or for every college student. But there is a large majority who feel that their faith is unfulfilling, or incomplete because they cannot properly debate apologetics, formulate pristine confessions of their faith, etc. They take the ambition that they have acquired in life, and that has been magnified in college, and they often transpose that onto their spiritual lives, pushing, and pushing, and striving, and striving, hoping that their faith, and the expression of it can be displayed and practiced in very logical and perfected ways.
And after a while, it ends up sapping them dry, and they wonder what has happened. This is not only a problem in college ministry, but it is a problem for all ages. I just think that the academic context of college ministry makes it ripe for this to happen. Following God, reading the Bible, and meditating on His words, becomes more of a task that can be checked off, and more of a task that only requires more and more perfectionism. An A student tackles their spiritual lives in much the same ways that they tackle their academic lives.
As @ Large mentions above, we then begin to worship the idol of bibliolatry. To be a follower of Jesus Christ is not simply about following His words, but it's about following Him. The two are interconnected, yet they are also distinct. I know of Jesus Christ, and how to follow Him, because of His words, the Scriptures. But Jesus Christ is also revealed to me in Scripture, and in the working of the Holy Spirit. There is then, both an adherence to words, and to the Word. To only follow the words, leaves one to begin to worship only that.....But to follow the Word as well, is intimate, and breathes life into one. It is not always logical, it is not something we can always wrap our minds and hearts around.
To follow the Word keeps us from being simply worshippers of words, and keeps us from idolizing the wrong things.
Posted by rhett at 04:26 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
August 23, 2005
Can we get a new spokesperson!
I am tired of the media going back to the same people, over and over again, to represent Christianity, especially Evangelicalism! Especially when they represent the extreme views of a minority of Christians.
I can not even formulate a comment.
Posted by rhett at 03:59 PM | Comments (5) | TrackBack
Website to watch.....
I have been perusing over at Think Tank: Generous Orthodoxy in the Academy, and am very, very impressed. They have got quite a line up of thinkers and writers, many of whom were former professors of mine at Fuller Theological Seminary. They are definitely going to be a force to be reckoned with, and as Smart Christian stated earlier, some people will probably be crying over it.
It will be interesting to watch their blog develop over time.
Posted by rhett at 03:13 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
Smart Christian.....A blogging site that gets it....
There are many reasons why I appreciate reading the blog Smart Christian, but this is one of them:
Again, while some bloggers will be crying the "theological devil incarnate," I say, "bring them on." In my opinion, a variety is crucial for the conversational health of the Christian blogoshpere.
Thanks for your work Steve. Although I'm sure I won't agree with everything, for one, I appreciate your efforts.
This comment was made in reference to this, and this.
While some bloggers continue to point fingers, attack, and even list other Christian blogging sites as ones to stay away from or "heretical", Smart Christian continues to encourage the dialogue and discussion in the Christian arena, though he may not agree with everything. While some sites devote their entire time to discrediting, Smart Christian devotes time to building up, and pointing people towards hope in the midst of a lot of theological discussion and transition. Thanks for your work at Smart Christian.
Posted by rhett at 12:04 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack
August 22, 2005
Searching....
Newsweek's new article, IN SEARCH OF THE SPIRITUAL
Posted by rhett at 06:24 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
Who am I?
Speaking of issues of identity, as I have been addressing at various points. I am reminded of a poem by one of my favorite writers...you guessed it....Dietrich Bonhoeffer. This is a poem he wrote in prison, and it eloquently expresses not only his struggle to know who he was, but ours as well. Circumstances may be different, but the struggle is still there.
"WHO AM I?"
by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Who am I? They often tell me
I would step from my cell’s confinement
calmly, cheerfully, firmly,
like a squire from his country-house.
Who am I? They also tell me
I would talk to my warders
freely and friendly and clearly,
as though it were mine to command.
Who am I? They also tell me
I would bear the days of misfortune
equably, smilingly, proudly,
like one accustomed to win.
Am I then really all that which other men tell of?
Or am I only what I myself know of myself,
restless and longing and sick, like a bird in a cage,
struggling for breath, as though hands were compressing my throat,
yearning for colors, for flowers, for the voices of birds,
thirsting for words of kindness, for neighborliness,
trembling with anger at despotisms and petty humiliation,
tossing in expectation of great events,
powerlessly trembling for friends at an infinite distance,
weary and empty at praying, at thinking, at making,
faint, and ready to say farewell to it all?
Who am I? This or the other?
Am I one person today, and tomorrow another?
Am I both at once? A hypocrite before others,
and before myself a contemptibly woebegone weakling?
Or is something within me still like a beaten army,
fleeing in disorder from victory already achieved?
Who am I? They mock me, these lonely questions of mine.
Whoever I am, thou knowest, O God, I am thine.
Posted by rhett at 05:46 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
Conversation on Dialogue....
Summa Aesthetica is busy right now, but will get back to his posts on preaching, teaching, and dialogue in a few days. I mean really Cameron, how busy can a Ph.D. student be? I mean, how hard is learning multiple languages, doing comps, studying, preaching, etc......Stop slacking! Just kidding...
Looking forward to Cameron's return......
And Brian Colmery is ready to jump in on the mix, as I know he will have some things to say on an issue close to his heart.
Posted by rhett at 05:22 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
Barna's new book, and what it is saying about how we do church.....
George Barna has a new book coming out, The Revolution, and it has been causing quite a stir from what I can gather in the advanced readings of it. Smart Christian has been blogging about it, and has pointed us to two of the reviewers so far.
Both happen to be "emergent friendly", but that in no way skews with the data that Barna has presented, but rather instead, probably allows them to enjoy what Barna is presenting.
Andrew Jones does a pretty good break down of Barna's research, but let me give you a few statistics:
In 2000, roughly 70% of people go to a local congregation as their main avenue of expressing themselves spiritually, and as a means of growth. But by 2025, that number will drop to 30%. Only 30% of people will attend a traditional, local church, while the other 70% attend more homechurch, small group, emergent movements, as Barna states it. By 2025, the majority of Christians will be on a more fringe movement of Christian church, than what we currently experience.
Now I am only reproducing a bit of what others have read. I have no advance copy of this book. I find some of these things very insteresting though. And as Andrew Jones says, we will have to see what the final copy of the book says on these numbers.
Whether you define yourself as traditional, modern, postmodern, emergent, homechurch, seeker, etc....doesn't seem to matter. What matters is that the Church is needing (and I know many are), to think through new ways of doing church, whether they be slight, or drastic. So while some argue over postmodernity, or emergent, others I think will continue to ask the tough questions, and push the church into the future (Rob Bell for instance), rather than walling up the fort, and hoping to fight off the attack of the impending future.
The Church can be the last place of change, and sometimes that can be good, and other times that can be bad. But I wonder as Christians if we are more concerned with maintaining the status-quo, and our position in the pie, than we are about following Jesus Christ, and asking questions about Church.
Because if Barna's research ends up being correct, that means a lot of things for us, especially those of us in the ministry, and those of us who are wanting to live out the rest of our lives in traditional church ministry.
What will Church look like in 20 years?
What if how we do Church, no longer exists in 20 years? What will that mean for Church work, vocations, etc?
Do we maintain the status-quo out of an attempt to protect our own jobs, rather than asking questions that may risk them?
So while the Church sits around and debates modernity, postmodernity post-postmodernity (yes this is already out there), people are finding Christianity on their own, because we can't seem to get our act together, and we appear to rather spend our time criticizing each other, rather than thinking about Church.
If you look down my left column, I have a group that I call postmodern/emergent thinkers. Now I sometimes get some criticisms from others for having those bloggers on my blog. But it seems that those who criticize me on this issue, are those who would rather spend their time searching the blogs for someone to attack, rather than thinking, praying, writing, etc., and attributing to the Church. And these bloggers to the left, they are the ones asking the questions, and attributing to what I think what will be many of the findings that Barna is going to present.
It will be interesting to see how many of those churches that lauded his findings in earlier years, now disagree with new findings, since it will obviously put them on the outs.
PLOP. That was me getting off my soapbox.
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Rob Bell continues to point people in the right direction....
This is why I am continually impressed with the words, thoughts, preaching, and book, of Rob Bell. Here is a great interview with Rob Bell taken from beliefnet.
Again, in a culture, where it seems that a lot of Christians spend a lot of their time attacking other Christian's views, doctrine, etc., because they might not tow the line....Rob Bell instead points people to a message of hope, redemption, reconciliation, and ultimately to the person of Jesus Christ.
I am re-working my way through his book, Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith, and it is rocking my world.
His chapter, titled Tassels, where he talks about superpastor is mesmerizing. Why? Because so many people can relate to it....be it superpastor, supermom, superstudent, etc. He hits at some core identity issues, and I think he hits on an issue that too many people in ministry are struggling with, but don't even know it. Very few and far between are those in ministry, or in life that will actually seek help, and do the hard work of understanding who they are...and not who others perceive them to be, or who they strive to be.
Posted by rhett at 04:10 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
August 18, 2005
Wow! I'm glad we don't work next to each other anymore!
So should I be worried that my former co-worker in Student Ministries at Bel Air Presbyterian Church logged these results yesterday from the classic movie, and famous leader quizzes?
Wow Don!
Posted by rhett at 05:28 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
August 17, 2005
BBC Newsflash....
Founder of Taize Christian Ecumenical community is stabbed to death.
I found this linked over at Andrew Jones.
I had always planned on visiting Taize, but never seemed to get around to it. I know the experience of my friends who had stayed there, was truly life-changing for them.
Posted by rhett at 06:36 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack
Thinking Out Loud, Dialogue in Preaching & A Word from Karl Barth
Thinking out loud! That's what blogging is a lot of times. Maybe not for every blogger, but for a lot of us it is. That is good and bad. Good, because thinking out loud can help one wrestle with ideas, bring up questions, and also bring clarity and new insight. Bad, because not all thinking should be made public, and not all thinking has worked itself into appropriate ways of expressing what is in one's head. Either way, I am someone who likes discussing, and that's why I am so intrigued by this topic of dialogue that has been going on. Not just on my blog, but others as well. And there have been many comments to aid in this process.
This process, this thinking out loud has exposed a lot of my blindsides and own biases, that I must own. And it has forced me to re-think, and study more thoroughly on this issue. Some questions that I have raised for myself recently, are these, but not limited to only these:
Is my desire for dialogue in the preaching event a product of my place? Meaning, I preach on Wednesday night, in a group of about 150-200 students, in a small chapel. They have already been to church on Sunday, heard a sermon preached, and are now here.
Therefore, would I think differently then, if i were to have to preach on Sunday morning?
Do I have the luxury to dialogue on Wednesday night, because the Word is already being proclaimed on Sunday, in a more typical preaching format? In more of a proclamation event.
Do my perceived gifts lend myself more to the dialogue method, than that of preaching? While others are more gifted at proclamation.
What is a teaching pastor? And does that differ from a preaching pastor? Just curious since I know there are a lot of teaching pastors at big churches, as distinguished from the preaching pastor. For example, John Ortberg is teaching pastor at Menlo Park Presbyterian Church. Does that mean he does not preach then? There is no preaching pastor. Is there a difference?
Is there a time for everything? A time to preach? A time to teach? A time to proclaim? A time to dialogue?
Is the problem not really with how we teach/preach, etc., but more with us as a congregation? As hearers of the Word. What is the responsibility of the listener in this process? Maybe we are too concerned in trying to re-invent the wheel, without really looking at ourselves as participating in the proclamation event.
Maybe this is why many churches that I know, just like the one I grew up in, reserved Sunday morning for what I would call preaching, and then had a Wednesday night study, where the pastor would teach, discuss, and engage his or her listeners.
I think questions are good opportunities to push everyone into more serious theological reflection on certain issues. And this is definitely the case for me, as what began as some conversation, and questions, concerning my own pastoral task, has now turned into more serious reflection.
This afternoon I was reading some passages in The Barthian Revolt in Modern Theology: Theology Without Weapons, and came across this statement by the author, talking about Karl Barth.
This is why the movement of the Word as preaching was so crucial to his interpretation of the Word as threefold event. By the logic of his doctrine of the Word, it was only as Christian preaching that the Word remains ongoing. The Word becomes present as preaching in the same way that the Holy Spirit makes God present to us. That is, just as the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, the Word as preaching proceeds from revelation and scripture. Barth's point was not that the revelatory and scriptural forms of the Word cannot be made present. Rather, just as the Father and Son are made present only through the movement of the Spirit, the Word as revelation and scripture are made present "in, with, and under" preaching and only through preaching.
By "preaching" Barth meant more than Sunday sermonizing or even the general ministerial work of pastors. Preaching included all forms of genuine Christian witness, including, "whatever we all 'preach' to ourselves in the quiet or our own rooms." It included even the work of theologians, insofar as they understood and practiced theology in a ministry of the Word of God and therefore a form of preaching, he argued. (pp.78)
Posted by rhett at 03:41 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
The complexity of people.....and the mystery behind the mystery.....Exploring Lost, Rob Bell and Susan Howatch.
Apparently, the quizzes I posted last night, were quite popular. And I wasn't the only one that wasn't totally thrilled with all my answers. I wasn't totally thrilled with the classic movie reference, since it basically pegged me as an egomaniac. Yikes. As far as being like Ganhdi in leadership style....well, outside of some diagreements on Christian views, as well as some other things, he was a great leader. Apparently some of my friends weren't too thrilled to be likened to Bill Clinton though.
Fun stuff.
But all these quizzes have had me thinking. From the quizzes determining which theologian are you, to which fantasy/sci-fi character are you, to what classic movie and famous leader are you.....they have a common theme. They try, with a handful of questions, to reduce a person into a certain stereotype. With twenty questions, you are told that you fit best here, or there. And if you read the questions in these quizzes, well there isn't a lot of ambiguity or grey area, which some of you like. You are given a hardline question, and based on how you answer that question, will put you in one of a few camps, without the possibility for some movement, or some ability to debate the legitimacy of the question. If you have taken these quizzes, then you know what I mean. If you haven't, well, let me see if I can give you an example.
In the which theologian are you quiz, they ask the question, "All Christian theology must begin with the revelation of Jesus Christ." And so you have to basically agree with, or agree against that statement. You can't agree a little with it, or a little against it. Saying yes to it, will definitely throw you in one camp of theologians. Saying no, will put you in another. But then there are many who would say yes and no.
But aren't we more complex than that as people. Maybe some of us don't like greyness or ambiguity, especially where theology is concerned. But aren't we also as people, given to ambiguity and multiple thoughts, situations, etc. at any given time? What we believe is not always capable of being reduced to yes and no questions.
Why am I bringing all this up? Well, mainly because I have been thinking a lot about the complexity of people. We often think we have people pegged down, that we know who they are, what they think, and how they will act. We often judge people based on our perceptions, while failing to take in account all sorts of other variables. This could be deadly to a relationship or a situation.
Let me give you an example. My wife loves watching the tv show Lost. I had never watched the show before, because I have college group every Wed night. And I've always had a weakness for Smallville anyways. But now that we have Tivo (which is unbelievable by the way, especially since I don't watch much TV), we have been recording everything. And I have been watching Lost, and I am hooked. I am hooked, mainly because the show is so mysterious, and the people are so complex. There is a lot of mystery surrounding the characters, and you are given a little bit of insight into their story in the episodes. Enough information to gather some pieces regarding who they are a little bit, but not enough to say with any definite tone that you have them pegged as people. I think that is the genius of the show.
Well recently we have been going back and watching the episodes, and a bit out of order. And I have been having a hard time with the father Michael Dawson, and the way he is with his son, Walt Lloyd. That was until I began to get more pieces about this relationship. I had missed the crucial episode that showed Michael going over to Australia to bring home his son Walt that he had not seen in 8 years. So I had always assumed that Michael was not a very good father. Then I saw more, and his complexity, and the complexity of the relationship, and the history began to unravel more and more. It is then that I realized, wow, this situation deserves more than my quick analysis and placement of people into certain categories and boxes, where they can forever live out their existence in the roles that I have defined for them.
This is an interesting issue. Rob Bell in his book Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith, talks about the issue of identity, and the idea of the "mystery behind the mystery", which he takes from Susan Howatch and her book, Glittering Images.
Rob Bell, in a chapter called "Movement Four: Tassels" tells beatifully the story of his journey in life and in the pastorate. He talks about the complexity of himself, and how this complexity was created by so many things. Things that happened to him when he was thirteen. Things that happened to him when was going to seminary, when he went into the ministry, when he began to try and be what he calls "superpastor." He talks about this person, and the multiple layers, and how "superpastor" was basically killing him, but that there were so many layers, so many "mysteries behind the mystery." He says:
"In addition, there is always a mystery behind the mystery. There is a reason we do what we do, and often it is the result of something that is a result of something that is--you guessed it--the result of something. What happens is we try to fix things, but we stop at the first or second layer. We're stressed and so we make adjustments in time management. But a better question is, why do I take on so much? But an even better question is, why is it so hard for me to say no? Or even, why is that person's approval so important to me......But that's not even the real issue......What I have learned is that the deeper you go, the more painful it gets......We have to be willing to drag everything up......."
This is part of a great chapter on one's identity. It is one that everyone needs to read, and it is especially relevant to those in the vocational ministry, as he talks about identity in this capacity as well, and I found myself nodding up and down the whole time I was reading. In fact, I have received two subsequent phone calls this week (unbeknownst to each other) from friends in the ministry who had just read this chapter. It hit them hard, and that's what they have been thinking about.
People are complex. There are many layers to them. This is something that we should keep in mind when we are before others, in relationship with one another, sharing community with one another. This is something that I must keep in mind as a pastor as well. I have been re-reading a book by Deborah van Deusen Hunsinger, called Theology and pastoral counseling: A new interdisciplinary approach. She takes a very cool, Barthian approach to therapy and counseling. By the way, her husband is the theologian George Hunsinger, who runs the Center for Barth Studies at Princeton Theological Seminary.
In her Barthian approach to therapy she identifies a three-fold way of looking at people. I will describe very simply, what is actually more complex, and what she can do justice to, and I cannot.
She takes an approach that allows one to look at a person from a very trinitarian view. When one comes into contact with a person,
1) we should remember that they are someone that is made in the image of God; Divine Image Bearers
2) that they are someone who Jesus Christ came to earth for, died, and was resurrected, offering salvation
3) that they are a person that the Holy Spirit is continually forming and guiding; working on
Talk about the complexity of people. This view has helped me enter into relationship more effectively with people in my ministry, friends, etc. They are complex and unique in many ways.
I urge everyone to think about this issue, and the complexity of people, and to not take for granted the relationships you have in your life.
Last, I urge everyone to read Susan Howatch. In my opinion, for whatever it is worth, she is the greatest living novelist. She has written many books, but the ones that I am referring to are what is called her "Starbridge Series." One pastor stated that his pastor friend told him that this is a six-pack that no pastor can do without (referring to the six books in the series. I agree. These books are unbelievable, and I have read most of them twice, and am now re-reading Glittering Images for the third time.
These six books are Glittering Images, Glamarous Powers, Ultimate Prizes, Scandalous Risks, Mystical Paths, Absolute Truths. Now, if you are looking for non-complex, easy reading, these are not it. If you are looking for santized characters, where they always do the right thing, and the clergy are always looked upon with the highest favor. These are not it. If you are looking for cleaned up people, where no one makes mistakes, and where pastors don't have vices and don't commit very undiscerning acts. These are not it. If you think contemplative spirituality, or mysticism, or monastics, or Anglican theology is a crock. Then these are not for you.
But if you love great writing, and you want plots, and characters that are as complex as could be. These are the books for you. If you want fiction that is similar to real-life, and deals with the struggles of people, and those in ministry. Then these are for you. If you want books that transform you. Then these are for you.
The three books after these, The Wonder Worker, The High Flyer, and The Heartbreaker, are great as well, and follow some of the characters from the original series. And they are a bit more gritty, especially the Heartbreaker. Craig Williams says this about The Heartbreaker:"Recommending this book isn't easy. It's offensive. But necessarily so. I was captured by the story. And challenged deeply to consider if I'm up to the task of loving my neighbor, whoever it may be. Definitely rated R, but it's not graphic - merely honest."
So enjoy the reading, and exploring the complexity of people, and "the mystery behind the mystery."
Below is a bio of this series, taken from Wikipedia written on Susan Howatch.
"The Starbridge Series
Howatch's most popular work is the Starbridge series. This series of six books (later expanded to seven) sets out to tell the history of the Church of England through the twentieth century. Each of the six books is self contained, and each in narrated by a different character. However the main protagonist of each book also appears in the other books, allowing the author to present the same incidents from different viewpoints.
The action of all six books centres round the fictional Anglican diocese of Starbridge, which is supposedly in the west of England, and also features the Fordite monks, a fictional Anglican monastic order.
The three main characters in the Starbridge series represent different wings of the Church of England. Charles Ashworth reprsents the conservative wing; Jon Darrow the Anglo-Catholic wing and Neville Aysgarth the liberal wing. The first three books of the series (Glittering Images, Glamorous Power, Ultimate Prizes) begin in the 1930s, and continue through the Second World War. The second three (Scandalous Risks, Mystical Paths, Absolute Truths) take place in the 1960s.
The Wonder Worker (UK Title A Question of Integrity) picks up the story of a major character, Nick Darrow, fifteen years after the events of the Starbridge series. The High Flyer and The Hearbreaker use some of the same characters from that book as minor characters.
Howatch has used some of the profits from her novels to found "The Starbridge Lectureship in Science and Theology", a professorship at Cambridge University devoted to linking the fields of science and religion."
Posted by rhett at 08:53 AM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
August 16, 2005
More ways to pass (waste) your time...haaaa
So I was perusing over at Revkasedogg, and I came across these tests that he had linked over to another site. The test quizzes were What Classic Movie Are You? and What Famous Leader Are You?.
More entertaining things to do on the internet if you have a down moment. So I did them. And once again, I'm not particularly pleased across the board. Anyone reading too much into them..well, might have some questions about me then.
After the results...Hmmm...When it came to leaders, I have been pegged as being a pacifist, moralist leader. I would have settled for the other, one time pacifist, Dietrich Bonhoeffer. That's not asking too much is it. And when it came to classic movies, well I guess I'm in to fame and prestige, and I'm about myself. Shoot. I guess I need to move out of LA, ASAP.
Here are the results: I hope these don't end my ministry. Yikes.
Not exactly the qualities you are looking for in a pastor. Doesn't seem to coincide with the humility you find in Phil. 2:5-11, or in Nouwen's idea of voluntary displacement.
Flawed tests I say....Give me Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Gone With The Wind
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Dialogue in Preaching and Teaching....Part. 1.2
Cameron, over at Summa Aesthetica posts his second entry on dialogue in preaching/teaching. Great stuff. He has some pretty funny stuff about the fill in the blank sermon as well. I agree Cameron. I have never liked the bulletin, where the outline is posted on back, and the only goal of the congregation, is to wait with baited breath for the correct word to pop up, so we can then complete our outline. Then we can go home...or we can actually listen to the Word of God. Waiting for magic words to put into an outline is a terrible way to listen to proclamation. But that's just my opinion. I've done some pretty bad sermon stuff on my own.
This is an important conversation I believe that Cameron is working on. I would like to see any feedback on his site, mine, or any others, about this issue. If you are a pastor, what do you think about all of this? If you are a theology student, what do you think about all of this? If you are a member of a church, what do you think about all of this? Whoever you are, what do you think about this?
Posted by rhett at 10:36 AM | Comments (5) | TrackBack
August 15, 2005
Quick hits for the night....
Mike DeVries, over at the Awakening, continues his reflection on Rob Bell's new book, "Velvet Elvis", with a post entitled, Wrestling with the Text.
Ryan Bolger has some advice for modern leaders, "Let go"
Relevant Magazine gets a cool face lift.
And I will continue to look forward to Summa Aesthetica's dialogue on, dialogue in preaching/teaching.
Posted by rhett at 07:47 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
Name changing....
Here is an interesting article on why churches are changing their names, and dropping their denominational affiliation from the title. They quote Eddie Gibbs, professor of church growth at Fuller Theological Seminary. He goes on to say:
Emerging churches - more intimate faith communities reaching out beyond baby boomers to those of Generation X and Y - are using names such as Three Nails in Pittsburgh and Landing Place in Columbus, Ohio, said Eddie Gibbs, professor of church growth at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif.
"I think what we are seeing is the detribalizing of Protestantism, in that if you have a large external constituency, which would identify culturally or historically with a particular denomination, then obviously it's a plus factor to have that identification," Gibbs said. "But (that changes) when the community becomes increasingly diversified.
"Probably after Vietnam and Watergate there was an increasing distrust of institutions, so that Jesus was still in, but the institutional church was no longer an attraction. So, I think that the dropping of the denominational label is to become more generic, less of a threat, less of a reminder of negative stereotypes if you've walked away from church."
I would be interested in hearing from you. How many of you are part of a church that has changed it's name, so as to appeal to more people, or to not highlight the denominational affiliation. My first job after college was at a church that dropped Southern Baptist from it's name, so as not to scare others away who has certain stereo-types in their mind.
Interesting topic. Sort of funny that the new name we chose for our ministry, quest, appears in the article's title.
Posted by rhett at 03:26 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack
Summa Aesthetica takes up the issue of dialogue to a new level....
Cameron, over at Summa Aesthetica, picks up on our conversation regarding dialogue in preaching/teaching, and begins a series that will take this to a whole new level. Cameron is in his final couple of years of Ph.D. work, and you will defintitely be hearing more from him in the future. So anything you can read of his, is worthwhile.
I am interested to see what comes of this conversation on dialogue.
Posted by rhett at 10:39 AM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
August 12, 2005
Good Quote and a thought on reading....
Smart Christian has been reading through Brennan Manning's book, Ruthless Trust, and reflecting on it. I have enjoyed some of his comments on the book, and some of the quotes he has posted. This in particular:
Craving clarity, we attempt to eliminate the risk of trusting God. Fear of the unknown path stretching ahead of us destroys childlike trust in the Father's active goodness and unrestricted love. We often presume that trust will dispel the confusion, illuminate the darkness, vanquish the uncertainity, and redeem the times. But the crowd of witnesses in Hebrews 11 testifies that this is not the case. Our trust does not bring final clarity on this earth. It does not still the chaos or dull the pain or provide a crutch. When all else is unclear, the heart of trust says, as Jesus did on the cross, "Into your hands I commit my spirit" (Luke 23:46)."
It is interesting to note that Smart Christian points out in one of his posts, that "Although I know that some Christian folks find some objections in Manning's writings, I am being deeply moved toward my trust in God's everlasting love through insights and challenges in Ruthless Trust."
Curious how we feel the need to put out disclaimers, or defend before others what we choose to read. This is just my opinion, and that is it. But I think Christians should read a great multitude of writers, and be exposed to all kinds of thoughts and writings, whether one agrees with them or not. I believe that we too often fear that a person may not be discerning enough in what they read, so then we want to play the Holy Spirit for them, and protect them from what they may come across. I think some hold on to this verse, "For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listenting to the truth and wander away from myths" (II Timothy 4:3-4). We are afraid that if people read certain things, they will be persuaded away from the faith, and taught wrong things.
Now, let me say this. I know there are some things out there, not worth reading. But just because a writer, theologian, philosopher, artist, etc., may fall outside of our denominational circles, or have a different Christian theology than your church, doesn't mean they aren't worth reading. If I were to listen to the advice of some of my professors at my Christian University, I would have not read Karl, Barth, Jurgen Moltmann, Henri Nouwen (yes...because he was Catholic), and on and on. It's a good thing I read for myself, otherwise my thoughts, and life would not have been as deeply influenced as it has been, and as enriched as it has been by reading them, and many others.
That is my soapbox for now. Good stuff at Smart Christian, and I'm glad he is sharing it with us.
Posted by rhett at 01:24 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack
August 11, 2005
What does the David Crowder Band, Jimmy Eat World, and Rob Bell, have in common?
David Crowder Band
Jimmy Eat World
Rob Bell
Let me see if I can explain this:
Zach Lind, who is the drummer for Jimmy Eat World, also helped produce the album Illuminate for The David Crowder Band. And Zach Lind, who plays for Jimmy Eat World, who helped produce Illuminate, interviews Rob Bell, the pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church in Michigan, who is also the author of the new book Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith. Oh, and Rob does the NOOMA videos as well.
Oh, you can find this very informal, very cool interview at Zach's blog Finding Rhythm.
Okay...I hope that makes sense. Talks about six degrees of separation.
Posted by rhett at 07:18 PM | Comments (0) | TrackBack
Velvet Elvis: Working through the book...
As I mentioned a few days ago, I want to get around, eventually, to blogging about Rob Bell's new book, which I finished a couple of weeks ago. But I'm a little behind, obviously discussing other things.
But one smart blogger that I enjoy reading is Mike DeVries. He is beginning to write some thoughts on this book. He begins with an interesting post on The Text in Community.
Interesting post.....
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Dialogue on Discipleship continues.....
It seems as if this topic has attracted a lot of attention. A lot of people are wrestling with the issue of discipleship, and how we go about making disciples for Christ. Some do this on a more conscious level, really thinking through steps, programs, etc. Others do this on a more subconcious level, where they are thinking through these things, but have yet to express them in words, or to have found a group of people to converse with on this issue.
With that in mind, I began last night, what will be about a 4-5 weeks series on what discipleship is. What is a disciple? Something very basic, very core.
I began with dialogue, asking the audience questions. When they were done, we discussed our answers and ideas with one another. From my perspective it was amazing to watch their faces, as they came alive in dialogue. Either they don't get the opportunity to talk very much about these things, or they were really surprised that I had pulled them into the teaching "moment." Whatever the case, they were ready to share. And it was great. We were able to come up with a wide variety of ideas, answers, etc. And each answer helped us sketch a more wholistic idea of what a disciple is. The totality of the dialogue really helped me bear fruit for the remainder of the night. And I was honestly encouraged by their insight into certain texts, etc.
After the dialogue, I then began to "preach" a text. Matthew 4:18--5:2. We looked at Jesus calling his disiciples, and the process of moving from the Sea of Galilee where they were called, to the hillside, where the Sermon on the Mount was given. And I talked about that text, and what that must have looked like. I raised some of my own questions regarding the text, especially the immediacy with which the disciples dropped their nets. During this preaching, I raised these questions, and asked for feedback, and again, the answers helped me understand more or less, who I was speaking to. What they were thinking about. When I was done exegeting, and preaching through this text, we watched Rob Bell's video Dust, which gives a very different interpretation of the text than one traditionally has heard. After viewing the video, then we came back and discussed the video itself, and what we thought about this interpretation. Again, it was great to watch them reflect on our discussion, the text, and this video together.
I finished up with a little more preaching on Matthew 5:1-2. Eventually closing up with a few worship songs.
Overall, it was a great night. It was a very different approach then I am used to taking, but I felt that the involvement of the audience during the night, definitely enhanced the preaching and teaching process, and their involvement, also moved them I believe, from simply hearers of the word, to doers of the word(Matthew 7:24-27). They were simply not there to only listen, but to also ask what this looked like. And I think that involvement, and reflection, help one cement an idea, thought, or teaching, more concretely into one's heart, mind and soul. It moves them into a place where reflection helps motivate action. This could be a leap, but this is what I am thinking about right now.
Summa Aesthetica and I have been having some good phone conversations on this issue. And one thing that has recently come up is the idea of "etiquette" in the dialogue process. Sometimes you can have a good dialogue, where there is give and take, between everyone. And sometimes, one person dominates, or even becomes hostile. So dialogue can either head down a good path sometimes, or a very difficult path. One never completely knows. Fortunately, my students seem to be great and respectful in dialogue. And sometimes not all questions or thoughts can be answered, and sometimes certain answers suffice as well. So "etiquette".....just another component of dialogue, as part of the discipleship process.
There are many layers, and we will continue to unravel them together in community, as we discuss these things and learn from each other.
One thing that I was encouraged by last night was the idea from my students that a disciple was someone who was a student, a learner, an apprentice. That there was this process of learning that occurs between teacher and student, and between students in community. My students felt that as a disciples in Christ, the role of learning in community was vital. And I agree. That is why I will keep asking and raising these questions, so that we can learn them together in community.
Posted by rhett at 06:12 PM | Comments (2) | TrackBack
August 10, 2005
Comment from Summa-Aesthetica on my last post....
Good thoughts Cameron (see below). Cameron is the smarter part of myself. We used to be roommates in seminary, and he has always been good at helping me clarify and understand things. This dialogue between you and I reminds me of some of my own blindspots, as I am wrestling with this issue. This is the advantage of dialogue and conversation. The opportunity to clarify. The opportunity to be corrected. Etc.
And you are on to something. How can we use the dialogue method in proclamation, which is what we do when we preach?
I like the idea of having multi-faceted services. Time for proclamation. Time for dialogue. Sometimes I like to begin with some questions. And from there, compose sort of a mental composite of the topic. Something to get us thinking. Then we move into a time of proclamation, which may or may not involve questions and dialogue from others. Then we close with discussion, reflection. This is not the only way, but is one way that has been effective for myself and others.
Let's continue this dialogue, so that we can better understand what it means to proclaim God's word amongst people.
I will let you know how tonight goes, after I preach and dialogue.
Also...Cameron. If life was scripted like the WB, I think I would want it to be Smallville. I have revealed my vice to you all. And thank God for Tivo....Smallville and college group on Wednesday nights was really putting me in a bind :-)
Rhett,
I have been giving thought to the idea of dialogical preaching too. The problem is, preaching is meant to be more than a coffee shop chat--that is what coffee shops are for. But I think the concept is a good one, so I have been wrestling with how to best format a more interactive sermon that still enables proclamation.
I wonder if the Acts 2 model applies (or is it Acts 3?) where Peter preaches to the crowd at Pentecost and the crowd asks, "What can we do to be saved." Clearly, that is not a typical repsonse..."So tell me Rhett, how should I apply this timeless truth to my life." Real life is not scripted like the WB. But, I wonder if it would work to structure a time for proclamation, and time for response. Sort of like "sermon meets town hall meeting."
Paul, Jessy and I have been talking (very informally) about planting a church, and this is a model we are thinking about.
What do you think?
Cameron
Posted by rhett at 06:39 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack